Do novelists work for their publishers—or do they work for their audience? Elle Griffin is a rare breed in the literary world: she’s an optimist. Two days ago, she announced that her husband was taking a leave of absence from his job and they plan to travel the world, so she can study utopian communes. She’s been publishing both fiction and essays on Substack—and earning income from her subscribers.
I commend Elle for thinking dynamically about new publishing approaches, but my two years of reading fiction, including serialized novels on Substack, has only reinforced my belief that novels are best experienced in paper or audio formats. As far as I can tell, audiobooks were the major innovation of the last few decades and continue to increase in import.
Re: the wage thing, as a scumbag with an MBA and an outsider to the literary world, I find authors approach publishing from the wrong perspective. Authors are solopreneurs, full stop. Your agent and your publisher are business partners and sometimes their interests don't align with yours. Also, at the end of the day, we're creating artistic creations in widget form (e.g., a physical book or audio download, etc.). You have to market widgets if you want them to sell. No getting around that one.
I strongly prefer reading on paper. Some journalist once commented that reading on a screen (vs. reading on paper) can be compared to running on a treadmill in a gym--with ghastly ultraviolet lights-- to running outside in nature's fresh air.
I don't love serialized fiction but I have a 12yo daughter who LOVES serialized fan fiction. The way Gen Zers read is totally foreign to me but how could it not be? They grew up watching three minute videos: they snack, they don't eat meals
Yes to all this. And the Substack model is not feasible for the kind of nonfiction I write. Publishers are temporary business partners, not employers. I doubt there was ever a time when everyone’s advances covered the cost of writing. How would you begin to calculate that anyway?
I had 1.25 million views of my first Substack novel. However, it was already released and I was just serializing chapter by chapter. I think it brought a new audience into the series, especially my nonfiction readers who got a taste of it every week. However, I'm not sure it was worth it, honestly. It didn't take that long, though.
Not really, but I learned a long time ago not to expect the same patterns from my readers that I exhibit myself. People seemed to like it way more than I personally do, especially paying subs.
I’m serialising a novel at the moment here on Substack. It’s not one I’m writing in real time though, it was written a couple of years ago, but I am re editing it. I wouldn’t be able to put out essentially a first draft because of all the tweaks I do as I write.
It’s been an interesting process and people have been responsive and excited - but mainly over on instagram rather than on here.
I think there are many readers, especially internationally, who do enjoy reading in a serialized, sometimes gamified, fashion, as the popularity (or at least continued existence ) of Wattpad, Radish, Royal Road, Kindle Vella, etc. attest. I've experimented with offering serialized fiction behind a paywall on Ream, which offers authors a chance to monetize their own serial fiction rather than having to go through a third party. I love the idea, but I think only authors with strong followings already have been able to make it work at scale, and many of their subscribers are interested in things like merch, bonus content, access to the author themselves, and exclusive stories, not just fiction, which usually is packaged and available on retailers eventually even if it starts out serialized. Substack might not be the best platform for serialized fiction, but I definitely think there is a place for it.
A lot of apps (Radish is probably the most prominent) have ways to keep readers engaged and keep buying credits, to earn extra credits by performing certain actions. And then there are actual interactive apps where readers can sort of choose their own adventure within a story world. I don’t think these things will ever be the primary way most people read (I definitely don’t read this way!), but I think it’s cool there are non traditional alternatives to attract non traditional readers.
The kind-of-in-recent-memory novelists I know who serialized books include Norman Mailer, who cranked out his 1964 novel An American Dream in eight issues of Esquire before publishing the whole book, and Tom Wolfe, who wrote a draft of Bonfire of the Vanities in 27 biweekly issues of Rolling Stone in 1984. Wolfe took a couple of years to significantly revise Bonfire before releasing a final version in 1987. Each was already extremely well-known (though Bonfire was Wolfe's first stab at a novel) and publishing in a prestige outlet that milked the real-time serialization as a stunt that threw back to the 19th century.
Alternatively, Andy Weir wrote The Martian in real time, kind of as a blog, and solicited input from his readers about the science he was describing (a colleague of mine talked to him about this in 2015: https://reason.com/2015/12/12/the-man-behind-the-martian/).
I tend to agree with Leigh that what Elle is doing is both interesting and unlikely to catch on as the next thing. But why not as an audiobook that comes out weekly, biweekly or monthly--essentially as a podcast? I still can't listen to books but I'm amazed at how many people (old and young) I know now seem to prefer that option. A writer with a thousand true fans and a particular work ethic might be able to pull something like that off.
In whose recent memory, Nick? 😉 Finding out how much Wolfe was paid to serialize in Rolling Stone makes me want to cry. This was glory days of print media! I like your idea for serialized audio fiction in theory… though personally I’ve never listened to a scripted (fictional) narrative podcast.
My memory is like Lake Erie, Leigh, bigger than it should be and prone to catching on fire.
Books are a 500 year old technology and unlikely to disappear anytime soon.
Are you familiar with Kevin Kelly's 1,000 True Fans idea? He put it out in 2008 and Substack, Patreon, etc have helped it kind of come true. https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/
I’m not a fan of the serialized novel concept for the same reasons you are: it’s not particularly captivating to me, and I’m sick of looking at my phone/laptop. And I’m similarly grossed out at the writers who have the gall to compare receiving an advance for a published book with waged work. When you sit down to write a story, you’re doing so of your own accord, not because it might someday earn you above $12/hour once all your labor has been broken down.
I'm a bit confused by this response. I'm agreeing with Stein, here, particularly in reference to this part:
"In the literary community, there is this persistent framing of writers as starving artists victimized by the publishing industry. Instead of thinking, wow, I’m one of the lucky ones who got $50,000 for a work of art I made in the comfort of my own home using my imagination and a laptop, it’s I’m being paid less than minimum wage to post on my own Instagram account asking for preorders."
Let me rephrase my comment, though: When one of us sits down to write a book, there (usually) is no guarantee that we'll ever make a specified amount of money for doing so. We choose to do so anyway, because there are other reasons that labor is fulfilling. None of us are entitled to any particular wage for doing that work unless we've signed a contract saying we'll receive a certain amount of compensation beforehand.
Of course writing is work, and of course we all have bills to pay. That doesn't mean every single laborious or labor-adjacent activity we ever do will pay us to do them. They're often worth doing anyway, whether we end up with stacked bank accounts in the end or not.
Love the idea of reframing audience as a savings account. It’s the platform that gets the attention of the big five while giving you a direct line to your super fans and being your core security.
Yet again your newsletters are SO refreshing!! I'm absolutely with you about preferred reading modes and doubt about serialization, but I applaud those doing some cool and new that works for them!
And I also LOVE when writers approach publishing from a place of gratitude, rather than entitlement. Not that we can't stand up for ourselves, as we absolutely should, but despite the challenges I think viewing this as an amazing adventure that we're lucky to navigate is the healthiest way to go.
yes! I don’t understand where the entitlement comes from! you’re entitled to social security… you’re not entitled to earn income as a literary novelist
Thank you for looking at this from various angles. I’m currently querying, and there’s a lot of voices saying maybe I shouldn’t be!
I like the both/and of where you landed, and see that as the ideal for me, too. I love the community that seems to form on substack, and could see sharing in-world short stories with subscribers, and asking for feedback on ideas. But I was taught not to share a story until I’ve landed on what I want it to be. Feedback on reader experience of it is gold once the story is complete, but it muddies the water if it comes too soon.
It's a hard question because you've to keep the parts moving. And yeah, there isn't no shame in filing for unemployment. Filing for unemployment means I am asking for help. I cannot help myself alone. Even a well armed soldier needs a wall of other soldiers to protect themselves. So I think this will keep me from starvation. Writers face a lot of things.
Yes, but the question is: Why? Why is the default starving artist, gotta do some other job in order to make ends meet?
Why shouldn't authors be paid enough to live for their work, if we as a society truly value the stories they write & art they create?
Imagine what stories could be told & art created if a writer or artist were able to focus on their work, rather than cram it between another job or three, and maybe kids besides?
I believe we aren't paid enough to live fully in writing. The society has been hijacked by social media. The reading culture has gone and taken over by dopamine culture.
But writers hold a great place in the society if taken seriously. They see what the average don't see. Writers are only celebrated after they have long gone. Hope so.
I’ve been borrowing library books via the Libby app, which I use on both my iPad and iPhone and I’ve gotten to the point where it’s doesn’t bother me that it’s not an physical book. The app is styled so there are no distractions.
I’d read a serialized fiction if the writing and/or story (hopefully both) captured me.
Agreed. My novel, once published, will be primarily attractive to women over 40. This group will not likely pay $10 per month to receive a chapter of my 23-chapter book.
I commend Elle for thinking dynamically about new publishing approaches, but my two years of reading fiction, including serialized novels on Substack, has only reinforced my belief that novels are best experienced in paper or audio formats. As far as I can tell, audiobooks were the major innovation of the last few decades and continue to increase in import.
Re: the wage thing, as a scumbag with an MBA and an outsider to the literary world, I find authors approach publishing from the wrong perspective. Authors are solopreneurs, full stop. Your agent and your publisher are business partners and sometimes their interests don't align with yours. Also, at the end of the day, we're creating artistic creations in widget form (e.g., a physical book or audio download, etc.). You have to market widgets if you want them to sell. No getting around that one.
100%
I have an MBA and I work in publishing. You are correct.
I strongly prefer reading on paper. Some journalist once commented that reading on a screen (vs. reading on paper) can be compared to running on a treadmill in a gym--with ghastly ultraviolet lights-- to running outside in nature's fresh air.
I don't love serialized fiction but I have a 12yo daughter who LOVES serialized fan fiction. The way Gen Zers read is totally foreign to me but how could it not be? They grew up watching three minute videos: they snack, they don't eat meals
Yes to all this. And the Substack model is not feasible for the kind of nonfiction I write. Publishers are temporary business partners, not employers. I doubt there was ever a time when everyone’s advances covered the cost of writing. How would you begin to calculate that anyway?
Yes, I think of my publisher as a partner!
I had 1.25 million views of my first Substack novel. However, it was already released and I was just serializing chapter by chapter. I think it brought a new audience into the series, especially my nonfiction readers who got a taste of it every week. However, I'm not sure it was worth it, honestly. It didn't take that long, though.
very interesting! are you a consumer of serialized fiction on Substack?
Not really, but I learned a long time ago not to expect the same patterns from my readers that I exhibit myself. People seemed to like it way more than I personally do, especially paying subs.
I’m serialising a novel at the moment here on Substack. It’s not one I’m writing in real time though, it was written a couple of years ago, but I am re editing it. I wouldn’t be able to put out essentially a first draft because of all the tweaks I do as I write.
It’s been an interesting process and people have been responsive and excited - but mainly over on instagram rather than on here.
are you a consumer of serialized fiction on Substack, too?
Not hugely. I started reading a serialised novel on here but I don't think the author's continued publishing it.
I think there are many readers, especially internationally, who do enjoy reading in a serialized, sometimes gamified, fashion, as the popularity (or at least continued existence ) of Wattpad, Radish, Royal Road, Kindle Vella, etc. attest. I've experimented with offering serialized fiction behind a paywall on Ream, which offers authors a chance to monetize their own serial fiction rather than having to go through a third party. I love the idea, but I think only authors with strong followings already have been able to make it work at scale, and many of their subscribers are interested in things like merch, bonus content, access to the author themselves, and exclusive stories, not just fiction, which usually is packaged and available on retailers eventually even if it starts out serialized. Substack might not be the best platform for serialized fiction, but I definitely think there is a place for it.
Ooh I’m glad you commented! Do you have an example of what “gamified” serialization looks like?
A lot of apps (Radish is probably the most prominent) have ways to keep readers engaged and keep buying credits, to earn extra credits by performing certain actions. And then there are actual interactive apps where readers can sort of choose their own adventure within a story world. I don’t think these things will ever be the primary way most people read (I definitely don’t read this way!), but I think it’s cool there are non traditional alternatives to attract non traditional readers.
[[Theoretically a book advance should pay authors for the time that it took to write their book, as well as the time it will take to promote]]
A book advance reflects how much revenue the publisher thinks the book will generate. The publisher doesn't care how much time it takes you.
yes this exactly. it's literally a calculation of how much they will sell your book for and how many copies they think it will sell.
The kind-of-in-recent-memory novelists I know who serialized books include Norman Mailer, who cranked out his 1964 novel An American Dream in eight issues of Esquire before publishing the whole book, and Tom Wolfe, who wrote a draft of Bonfire of the Vanities in 27 biweekly issues of Rolling Stone in 1984. Wolfe took a couple of years to significantly revise Bonfire before releasing a final version in 1987. Each was already extremely well-known (though Bonfire was Wolfe's first stab at a novel) and publishing in a prestige outlet that milked the real-time serialization as a stunt that threw back to the 19th century.
Alternatively, Andy Weir wrote The Martian in real time, kind of as a blog, and solicited input from his readers about the science he was describing (a colleague of mine talked to him about this in 2015: https://reason.com/2015/12/12/the-man-behind-the-martian/).
I tend to agree with Leigh that what Elle is doing is both interesting and unlikely to catch on as the next thing. But why not as an audiobook that comes out weekly, biweekly or monthly--essentially as a podcast? I still can't listen to books but I'm amazed at how many people (old and young) I know now seem to prefer that option. A writer with a thousand true fans and a particular work ethic might be able to pull something like that off.
In whose recent memory, Nick? 😉 Finding out how much Wolfe was paid to serialize in Rolling Stone makes me want to cry. This was glory days of print media! I like your idea for serialized audio fiction in theory… though personally I’ve never listened to a scripted (fictional) narrative podcast.
My memory is like Lake Erie, Leigh, bigger than it should be and prone to catching on fire.
Books are a 500 year old technology and unlikely to disappear anytime soon.
Are you familiar with Kevin Kelly's 1,000 True Fans idea? He put it out in 2008 and Substack, Patreon, etc have helped it kind of come true. https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/
I’m not a fan of the serialized novel concept for the same reasons you are: it’s not particularly captivating to me, and I’m sick of looking at my phone/laptop. And I’m similarly grossed out at the writers who have the gall to compare receiving an advance for a published book with waged work. When you sit down to write a story, you’re doing so of your own accord, not because it might someday earn you above $12/hour once all your labor has been broken down.
I also love physical books, except for during long car drives audiobooks are great.
However, I think your last part comes from a place of entitlement & honestly doesn't make sense.
Why shouldn't authors be paid for their work? Because writing *is* work (and art of all kinds). And it takes time & both physical & mental energy.
If we truly value stories & books, we should also value the people who create them.
Everyone needs money to live, yes?
Amen
Also, please tell me how I’m entitled for explicitly saying no one is entitled to a specific amount of money for their work, including me. lol
I'm a bit confused by this response. I'm agreeing with Stein, here, particularly in reference to this part:
"In the literary community, there is this persistent framing of writers as starving artists victimized by the publishing industry. Instead of thinking, wow, I’m one of the lucky ones who got $50,000 for a work of art I made in the comfort of my own home using my imagination and a laptop, it’s I’m being paid less than minimum wage to post on my own Instagram account asking for preorders."
Let me rephrase my comment, though: When one of us sits down to write a book, there (usually) is no guarantee that we'll ever make a specified amount of money for doing so. We choose to do so anyway, because there are other reasons that labor is fulfilling. None of us are entitled to any particular wage for doing that work unless we've signed a contract saying we'll receive a certain amount of compensation beforehand.
Of course writing is work, and of course we all have bills to pay. That doesn't mean every single laborious or labor-adjacent activity we ever do will pay us to do them. They're often worth doing anyway, whether we end up with stacked bank accounts in the end or not.
Love the idea of reframing audience as a savings account. It’s the platform that gets the attention of the big five while giving you a direct line to your super fans and being your core security.
You always provide thought-provoking concepts.
I especially love this post.
Thanks Lynne!
Yet again your newsletters are SO refreshing!! I'm absolutely with you about preferred reading modes and doubt about serialization, but I applaud those doing some cool and new that works for them!
And I also LOVE when writers approach publishing from a place of gratitude, rather than entitlement. Not that we can't stand up for ourselves, as we absolutely should, but despite the challenges I think viewing this as an amazing adventure that we're lucky to navigate is the healthiest way to go.
yes! I don’t understand where the entitlement comes from! you’re entitled to social security… you’re not entitled to earn income as a literary novelist
Thank you for looking at this from various angles. I’m currently querying, and there’s a lot of voices saying maybe I shouldn’t be!
I like the both/and of where you landed, and see that as the ideal for me, too. I love the community that seems to form on substack, and could see sharing in-world short stories with subscribers, and asking for feedback on ideas. But I was taught not to share a story until I’ve landed on what I want it to be. Feedback on reader experience of it is gold once the story is complete, but it muddies the water if it comes too soon.
It's a hard question because you've to keep the parts moving. And yeah, there isn't no shame in filing for unemployment. Filing for unemployment means I am asking for help. I cannot help myself alone. Even a well armed soldier needs a wall of other soldiers to protect themselves. So I think this will keep me from starvation. Writers face a lot of things.
Yes, but the question is: Why? Why is the default starving artist, gotta do some other job in order to make ends meet?
Why shouldn't authors be paid enough to live for their work, if we as a society truly value the stories they write & art they create?
Imagine what stories could be told & art created if a writer or artist were able to focus on their work, rather than cram it between another job or three, and maybe kids besides?
I believe we aren't paid enough to live fully in writing. The society has been hijacked by social media. The reading culture has gone and taken over by dopamine culture.
But writers hold a great place in the society if taken seriously. They see what the average don't see. Writers are only celebrated after they have long gone. Hope so.
I’ve been borrowing library books via the Libby app, which I use on both my iPad and iPhone and I’ve gotten to the point where it’s doesn’t bother me that it’s not an physical book. The app is styled so there are no distractions.
I’d read a serialized fiction if the writing and/or story (hopefully both) captured me.
Agreed. My novel, once published, will be primarily attractive to women over 40. This group will not likely pay $10 per month to receive a chapter of my 23-chapter book.
Yes, but you never know, it might. And also reach other readers who might never know it exists.