That is such a good point. I personally tend NOT to read the book club picks. I have no idea why. Is it an inherent rebellious nature? Not sure. But anyway, thank you for redirecting us writers!!
If I see a table display at a bookstore that's all the big brand/celebrity book club picks, I also tend to avoid. But a lot of them are historical fiction and I don't read that genre. Most readers are not as bombarded with books as I am, though, so I understand why this curation helps them pick their next read
Hi Leigh, listened to your interview on Sarah’s Bookshelf, highly recommend to your followers — great straight talk about the state of the publishing industry & TkTk’s role in overtaking the book world … hahaha. But seriously, friends first urged me toward IG to promote my two indie titles, then later (much too late alas) the Tok. As a visual person & well out of the age league, I took to IG right away as a new creative platform, but TkTk was cringeworthy for me precisely for what you mention in the interview — it is not a comfortable place for authors, or late-boomers like myself. Your recommendation to ‘query’ the #booktok influencers of your genre to build audience is genius however. With a new WIP it will be my go to marketing strategy going forward😎
I queried Betsy Lerner for my 1st book The Ghosts of Italy and received a very personal email response. She was in my top 5 dream agents! Was aghast that she wrote me a positive note, declining bc she was on the verge of publishing her own memoir.
I don’t watch daytime tv and I don’t know anyone who does (unless it’s a “sick day”) but I will say those stickers stand out to me in a physical book shop, Target, or airport (yes, I still buy and read physical books on a whim). When I’m caught up on my reading, I often find myself buying those books if I “need” something to read. I don’t enjoy researching what to read at all. I like booktok but I rarely buy those books because a lot of them show up with a stack of books (seems like homework). I do take note when a booktok shows up from a non-influencer. If someone does a one-off for a book they loved, I’m interested. That clip is in the zeitgeist again- it’s the 2nd time I’ve seen it in a week! Appreciate your take on books and culture, Leigh
The phrase “Niches to riches” is a great thing to review and dissect, as we know we are all “cool hunters” collectors of many different things that might not fit specifically into a general category. And this is why when you focus on a niche you are not zeroing in a market group, but a whole variety of people, tastes and likes.
For example Will Terry (from 3 point perspective/svslearn) made a children’s book about pickleball. He didnt went to scholastic, he selfpublished it and promoted it in pickleball groups. Try to guess who is in that group and you’ll find out pretty much a great variety of people.
I think the most powerful source of book recs amongst Gen x and Boomers are the (mostly) women who run their own small book clubs. They tell the rest of the group when to meet, what to read, and what they'll be snacking on / drinking. 😉 Those ladies should unite and form a powerful publishing house...
From what I gather talking to my mom and others they get them from Oprah, Reese and Jenna! I do think the stickers help people who aren't as online/in the book world. I know that's the case for me, I view those books with skepticism but that seems rare
From my own personal guess and working in publishing (not in sales, and just gleaned from chatter heard around) I think big buyers (Target, B&N, etc) are more likely to buy big numbers of books if they are attached to those names because it’s kind of double press? So even if it doesn’t actually attract people watching the show, both parties (shows/celebs AND stores) know they can piggyback off the other, and therefore authors equate that to sales (which will be higher just by default of being in big box stores). It’s so interesting because you’re right—who actually watches these daytime shows?
No, my mom doesn't read books (but still gets magazines like Oprah and Better Homes & Gardens so maybe reads essays when bored?), and my Dad reads Western-themed mysteries, which aren't exactly book club fodder. My Mom really likes watching Kelly Clarkson (who apparently has a daytime TV show!). They also both look at their phones a lot while watching TV.
It's true booktok and bookstagram ( didn't know about booktube) are the new IT book rec place. And that no one I know watches daytime TV. But, look at Verguese's fabulous sagaThe Covenant of Water it's sold more than 1M and a promise of a movie/series with Oprah's endorsement. Same with Reese's BC and Where the Crawdad's Sing and Big Little Lies from Moriarty's Down Under penmanship. I guess that's why we all keep hoping. (I include myself although I have an unpublished speculative fiction anthology of short stories snd a Novella which i haven't even queried yet for.)
Those are great examples of breakout books, helped by celebrity book clubs! From what I understand, Oprah’s endorsement still means more than anyone else’s. A few writers will win the Oprah lottery and the other 50,000 of us will…… ? 🙃
Thanks. I don’t know if you are American but I am pretty sensitive to how Americans talk about Australians so that’s probably it. Sorry for being tetchy
No, I'm not North American born. I am Venezuelan/Spanish/Romanian + a USA citizen. So I don't know how North Americans talk about Australians or Canadians. But I certainly know how the 🌎 talks about USA😆Anyway no worries.
Precisely The Apple Doesn't Fall ... started streaming today and was disappointed to read it was a US remake. Homecoming by Kate Morton is one of my fav reads lately
So disappointing. I love Australian TV but I think all of Moriarty’s adaptations have been American. Follow the money… hardly anyone invests in Australian TV.
As a former bookseller, I would say that a lot of bookstores (especially like Barnes and Noble) will highlight these picks, and people who are not sure what to read, aren't as online maybe, etc, will automatically assume those books are great and gravitate towards them. So it's not about following what Reese chooses, or watching those daytime shows to see what Jena says, but about going to the store and seeing a "curated" display that gives you a neat square of choices to choose from :)
As someone who had a book chosen by a celeb book club- (Emma Robert's Belletrist for my second novel TOUCH) and two morning talk shows (The Today Show for my first novel and my memoir) I might have to write a whole response post to this because I have so many opinions! First off, the daytime TV thing can be a question of politics and demographics. All of my family lives in the south and are Republicans (I'm an east coast diehard lefty) and they all watch daytime TV religiously as do their friends, aged 25 and up. The people I know down south (and also in the midwest) religiously purchase and read the books chosen by the morning shows because they offer a pretty flawless entertainment value. Whether or not the book club selection translates into massive sales, it always translates into increased interest on the part of bookstores, book clubs, book festivals, film agents and foreign agents, which means more money in rights sales for the author, regardless of how many units they actually end up moving during pub. And on the topic of celebrity book clubs (which aren't the same thing as morning show book clubs, but indulge me) celeb book clubs are primarily vehicles by which actresses can pick the projects they want to adapt, produce, and/or star in. The actresses with book clubs have production companies and option the books for film/screen WAY before the book club pick is made, and usually you need to have a major book deal with a major publisher (and a tremendously connected book and film agent) to get anywhere near the celebrity's club's radar. The behind-the-scenes decision making on which books are chosen for which clubs has very little to do with literature, in my opinion, and very much to do with production strategy and actor/showrunner availability and Hollywood politics including packaging deals, which means getting an author and script writer and a show runner and a lead actor all from the same talent company, like WME or CAA to make the path to the production as smooth as possible. I could go on and on, but I have certainly seen parts of the country where daytime TV still rules and is very much a benchmark by which readers make their choices. There is a bookstore in Chattanooga, TN, where my family lives, that stocks shelves ONLY with picks from daytime shows and celebrity book clubs. Really! I also think it's important to remember that a lot of the daytime talkshow fans aren't actually sitting down to watch TV- they follow on the socials, they read the summaries and listicles the morning shows pull together, they follow the "brand" of daytime talkshows across social media platforms. I think the relationship between a certain kind of reader and daytime talk show recs actually runs deep and is alive and kicking.
You should definitely write a post about it! :) (I also write about TV book clubs/celebrity book clubs together because they both have "brand recognition" for readers)
I think calling it Daytime TV might be throwing us off track. I'm sure some people do watch it during the day (though I don't know any). But I wonder if it's like so-called "late night" TV. I'm literally unable to even estimate how long it's been since I watched any of the shows at night. But I keep up with the best of it via YouTube. I never saw a minute of James Corden when he aired, but I loved Carpool Karaoke. What I'm asking is, do these shows stay relevant and influential because of what might be called the aftermarket -- i.e., social media?
James Corden is entertaining! How many people watch book segments on YouTube the next day? I have only done so when it’s a friend of mine who’s appeared on a show
I was coming to make this point - I don't watch Today regularly but follow the Hoda and Jenna Instagram and get their show in soundbite format later that day. I think TikTok does a lot of this too - secondary viewing? Not sure if there's a technical term.
I dont watch the morning shows but I do follow celebs on Instagram who also have book clubs or imprints (Mindy Kaling, Reese Withespoon). Their latest book choices are plugged a few times to their +1M followers --which can't hurt-- but the plug REALLY has to be compelling for me to consider reading the book.
And by "consider reading the book" I mean go to Amazon and read normal people's reviews.
*Those* reviews determine whether I proceed to checkout
There's braggin' rights. Any future editions and the paperback will gain an "as featured on" endorsement. Also Leigh a lot of people watch daytime TV because they are extremely busy working from home : )
That 1994 clip “what is the internet” WowWowWow 30 years made QUITE a difference…
I googled “Katie Couric 1994” looking for an image for the post and this was the first result!!
Wild — and Bryant Gumbel was so annoyed, like, what is this thing!
A bit threatened?
That is such a good point. I personally tend NOT to read the book club picks. I have no idea why. Is it an inherent rebellious nature? Not sure. But anyway, thank you for redirecting us writers!!
If I see a table display at a bookstore that's all the big brand/celebrity book club picks, I also tend to avoid. But a lot of them are historical fiction and I don't read that genre. Most readers are not as bombarded with books as I am, though, so I understand why this curation helps them pick their next read
SAME. I gravitate toward the lists and what I'm seeing online -- to your very point!
As always, great research and info on the industry and great perspective. How much has changed without our really paying attention.
thank you Melanie!
Hi Leigh, listened to your interview on Sarah’s Bookshelf, highly recommend to your followers — great straight talk about the state of the publishing industry & TkTk’s role in overtaking the book world … hahaha. But seriously, friends first urged me toward IG to promote my two indie titles, then later (much too late alas) the Tok. As a visual person & well out of the age league, I took to IG right away as a new creative platform, but TkTk was cringeworthy for me precisely for what you mention in the interview — it is not a comfortable place for authors, or late-boomers like myself. Your recommendation to ‘query’ the #booktok influencers of your genre to build audience is genius however. With a new WIP it will be my go to marketing strategy going forward😎
Do you follow Elizabeth Minchilli: https://www.tiktok.com/@elizabeth_minchilli?_t=8ktj7F3htwB&_r=1
Great! Does this mean I (an oldster-outsider) can still post clever book videos? I’ll do it!
of course you can! Betsy Lerner the literary agent is also on TikTok (and she is in her early 60s)
Leigh! You are a great (re)source!! XO
I queried Betsy Lerner for my 1st book The Ghosts of Italy and received a very personal email response. She was in my top 5 dream agents! Was aghast that she wrote me a positive note, declining bc she was on the verge of publishing her own memoir.
I don’t watch daytime tv and I don’t know anyone who does (unless it’s a “sick day”) but I will say those stickers stand out to me in a physical book shop, Target, or airport (yes, I still buy and read physical books on a whim). When I’m caught up on my reading, I often find myself buying those books if I “need” something to read. I don’t enjoy researching what to read at all. I like booktok but I rarely buy those books because a lot of them show up with a stack of books (seems like homework). I do take note when a booktok shows up from a non-influencer. If someone does a one-off for a book they loved, I’m interested. That clip is in the zeitgeist again- it’s the 2nd time I’ve seen it in a week! Appreciate your take on books and culture, Leigh
that totally makes sense! the sticker is a stamp of approval, so you don't have to sort through 100 options.
I know the book will at least be a Chipotle level meal.
The phrase “Niches to riches” is a great thing to review and dissect, as we know we are all “cool hunters” collectors of many different things that might not fit specifically into a general category. And this is why when you focus on a niche you are not zeroing in a market group, but a whole variety of people, tastes and likes.
For example Will Terry (from 3 point perspective/svslearn) made a children’s book about pickleball. He didnt went to scholastic, he selfpublished it and promoted it in pickleball groups. Try to guess who is in that group and you’ll find out pretty much a great variety of people.
I'd never heard that phrase before (niches to riches)!
Oh I am sure I wrote it wrong lol but thats the main idea
I think the most powerful source of book recs amongst Gen x and Boomers are the (mostly) women who run their own small book clubs. They tell the rest of the group when to meet, what to read, and what they'll be snacking on / drinking. 😉 Those ladies should unite and form a powerful publishing house...
Where do they get THEIR book recs though?
Great q, I will ask around for intel and will get back to you!
From what I gather talking to my mom and others they get them from Oprah, Reese and Jenna! I do think the stickers help people who aren't as online/in the book world. I know that's the case for me, I view those books with skepticism but that seems rare
From my own personal guess and working in publishing (not in sales, and just gleaned from chatter heard around) I think big buyers (Target, B&N, etc) are more likely to buy big numbers of books if they are attached to those names because it’s kind of double press? So even if it doesn’t actually attract people watching the show, both parties (shows/celebs AND stores) know they can piggyback off the other, and therefore authors equate that to sales (which will be higher just by default of being in big box stores). It’s so interesting because you’re right—who actually watches these daytime shows?
Yes, I think you’re right—the familiar brand name is social proof, even if it’s a brand name of a show that no one watches anymore 🙃
My 77-year-old parents watch daytime TV. That's kind of all they do.
thanks! Do you know if they get book recs from
the shows they watch?
No, my mom doesn't read books (but still gets magazines like Oprah and Better Homes & Gardens so maybe reads essays when bored?), and my Dad reads Western-themed mysteries, which aren't exactly book club fodder. My Mom really likes watching Kelly Clarkson (who apparently has a daytime TV show!). They also both look at their phones a lot while watching TV.
now I must google if Kelly Clarkson has a book club
I'm 72 and nevah evah turn on TV until after dinner
It's true booktok and bookstagram ( didn't know about booktube) are the new IT book rec place. And that no one I know watches daytime TV. But, look at Verguese's fabulous sagaThe Covenant of Water it's sold more than 1M and a promise of a movie/series with Oprah's endorsement. Same with Reese's BC and Where the Crawdad's Sing and Big Little Lies from Moriarty's Down Under penmanship. I guess that's why we all keep hoping. (I include myself although I have an unpublished speculative fiction anthology of short stories snd a Novella which i haven't even queried yet for.)
Those are great examples of breakout books, helped by celebrity book clubs! From what I understand, Oprah’s endorsement still means more than anyone else’s. A few writers will win the Oprah lottery and the other 50,000 of us will…… ? 🙃
From the recs I've seen in Boktok and Bookstagram -with the weird exception of Miller's Circe and Achilles- most are YA, romances or fantasy sagas.
Perish in the waters of the anonymity and the struggle to climb up the Kilimanjaro of querying and rejections🥴
As an Australian, I find Down Under penmanship to be a slightly condescending way of saying Australian author. Liane Moriarty is a talented writer.
That wasn't my intention. I love Australian everything. You misread my intentions. Must be the time difference and the geological distance.
Thanks. I don’t know if you are American but I am pretty sensitive to how Americans talk about Australians so that’s probably it. Sorry for being tetchy
No, I'm not North American born. I am Venezuelan/Spanish/Romanian + a USA citizen. So I don't know how North Americans talk about Australians or Canadians. But I certainly know how the 🌎 talks about USA😆Anyway no worries.
Precisely The Apple Doesn't Fall ... started streaming today and was disappointed to read it was a US remake. Homecoming by Kate Morton is one of my fav reads lately
So disappointing. I love Australian TV but I think all of Moriarty’s adaptations have been American. Follow the money… hardly anyone invests in Australian TV.
I did like Big Little Lies in spite of the US transplant. At least Kidman is Australian... but this new "The Apple ..." has bad reviews.
One of my fav shows is NZ's "Deadlock"
The two Kates on that also have a hilarious show called the katering show. I think it is on YouTube
Will check it out...gracias!!
As a former bookseller, I would say that a lot of bookstores (especially like Barnes and Noble) will highlight these picks, and people who are not sure what to read, aren't as online maybe, etc, will automatically assume those books are great and gravitate towards them. So it's not about following what Reese chooses, or watching those daytime shows to see what Jena says, but about going to the store and seeing a "curated" display that gives you a neat square of choices to choose from :)
I agree that bookstores' choices for a particular table or display can also make a big difference to readers who come into the store to browse.
As someone who had a book chosen by a celeb book club- (Emma Robert's Belletrist for my second novel TOUCH) and two morning talk shows (The Today Show for my first novel and my memoir) I might have to write a whole response post to this because I have so many opinions! First off, the daytime TV thing can be a question of politics and demographics. All of my family lives in the south and are Republicans (I'm an east coast diehard lefty) and they all watch daytime TV religiously as do their friends, aged 25 and up. The people I know down south (and also in the midwest) religiously purchase and read the books chosen by the morning shows because they offer a pretty flawless entertainment value. Whether or not the book club selection translates into massive sales, it always translates into increased interest on the part of bookstores, book clubs, book festivals, film agents and foreign agents, which means more money in rights sales for the author, regardless of how many units they actually end up moving during pub. And on the topic of celebrity book clubs (which aren't the same thing as morning show book clubs, but indulge me) celeb book clubs are primarily vehicles by which actresses can pick the projects they want to adapt, produce, and/or star in. The actresses with book clubs have production companies and option the books for film/screen WAY before the book club pick is made, and usually you need to have a major book deal with a major publisher (and a tremendously connected book and film agent) to get anywhere near the celebrity's club's radar. The behind-the-scenes decision making on which books are chosen for which clubs has very little to do with literature, in my opinion, and very much to do with production strategy and actor/showrunner availability and Hollywood politics including packaging deals, which means getting an author and script writer and a show runner and a lead actor all from the same talent company, like WME or CAA to make the path to the production as smooth as possible. I could go on and on, but I have certainly seen parts of the country where daytime TV still rules and is very much a benchmark by which readers make their choices. There is a bookstore in Chattanooga, TN, where my family lives, that stocks shelves ONLY with picks from daytime shows and celebrity book clubs. Really! I also think it's important to remember that a lot of the daytime talkshow fans aren't actually sitting down to watch TV- they follow on the socials, they read the summaries and listicles the morning shows pull together, they follow the "brand" of daytime talkshows across social media platforms. I think the relationship between a certain kind of reader and daytime talk show recs actually runs deep and is alive and kicking.
You should definitely write a post about it! :) (I also write about TV book clubs/celebrity book clubs together because they both have "brand recognition" for readers)
I think calling it Daytime TV might be throwing us off track. I'm sure some people do watch it during the day (though I don't know any). But I wonder if it's like so-called "late night" TV. I'm literally unable to even estimate how long it's been since I watched any of the shows at night. But I keep up with the best of it via YouTube. I never saw a minute of James Corden when he aired, but I loved Carpool Karaoke. What I'm asking is, do these shows stay relevant and influential because of what might be called the aftermarket -- i.e., social media?
James Corden is entertaining! How many people watch book segments on YouTube the next day? I have only done so when it’s a friend of mine who’s appeared on a show
I was coming to make this point - I don't watch Today regularly but follow the Hoda and Jenna Instagram and get their show in soundbite format later that day. I think TikTok does a lot of this too - secondary viewing? Not sure if there's a technical term.
I dont watch the morning shows but I do follow celebs on Instagram who also have book clubs or imprints (Mindy Kaling, Reese Withespoon). Their latest book choices are plugged a few times to their +1M followers --which can't hurt-- but the plug REALLY has to be compelling for me to consider reading the book.
And by "consider reading the book" I mean go to Amazon and read normal people's reviews.
*Those* reviews determine whether I proceed to checkout
There's braggin' rights. Any future editions and the paperback will gain an "as featured on" endorsement. Also Leigh a lot of people watch daytime TV because they are extremely busy working from home : )
Such a good post! Whoever does watch daytime T.V. is probably not my audience!